Todd Cordell: New Jersey Devils: On The Handling Of Damon Severson

off topic..

first of all, how bout this DSP guy? 4g, 2a in 6 games!

Not that we will try for him, or have a good chance, but i'm curious to this group's opinion on if we hypothetically should get Stamkos, if it would be the wisest and best move for the team.

To me, the argument against it is that we need another great draft pick, and Stamkos will probably make us a wildcard team.
The argument for it is Schneider is 30 and we hopefully have about 4-6 years of him being a top 10 goalie. If the team was 2 years further along in the rebuild I'd be for it, but I'm not sure right now.

PDB tortured Larsson and now Hynes is torturing Severson. Both guys sitting/sat in favor of other players that are probably not major players for the future or at least they don't carry quite the potential as Larsson/Severson. The season is lost let the kid play and let him make mistakes, he's going to learn more from mistakes than watching games from the press box and who knows if he learns maybe he'll stop making mistakes...

off topic..

first of all, how bout this DSP guy? 4g, 2a in 6 games!

Not that we will try for him, or have a good chance, but i'm curious to this group's opinion on if we hypothetically should get Stamkos, if it would be the wisest and best move for the team.

To me, the argument against it is that we need another great draft pick, and Stamkos will probably make us a wildcard team.
The argument for it is Schneider is 30 and we hopefully have about 4-6 years of him being a top 10 goalie. If the team was 2 years further along in the rebuild I'd be for it, but I'm not sure right now.
- MartysBetter88

The argument for Stamkos is they would be set at Center, even if Zacha doesn't become a star. Stamkos, Zacha, and Zajac the 3 centers, with Henrique able to play wing or center if needed.

DSP has been a real nice player for the Devils so far but when the roster (hopefully) gets more offensively talented players on it he'll probably be a 3rd/4th liner. I think placed with the right guys on the 4th line it could create a very good forechecking line that can produce some offense like the CBGB line during the cup run. Would be really nice to be able to roll 4 lines without the 4th line getting rag dolled in possession.

Everyone craps on Helgeson but the kid plays some quality D and brings some greatly needed grit to the blueline. I think he'd be a good third pairing with Severson.

Severson is a good sized kid and Seth is a big physical presence. You get one stay at home punishing D man and a mobile shooter. What's not to like?

PDB tortured Larsson and now Hynes is torturing Severson. Both guys sitting/sat in favor of other players that are probably not major players for the future or at least they don't carry quite the potential as Larsson/Severson. The season is lost let the kid play and let him make mistakes, he's going to learn more from mistakes than watching games from the press box and who knows if he learns maybe he'll stop making mistakes...
- 104shutout30

Exactly

Hynes does make a lot of questionable lineup decisions, especially Kennedy on the first line.

Everyone craps on Helgeson but the kid plays some quality D and brings some greatly needed grit to the blueline. I think he'd be a good third pairing with Severson.

Severson is a good sized kid and Seth is a big physical presence. You get one stay at home punishing D man and a mobile shooter. What's not to like?
- Queenie_5_hole

The thing is, there is no 'grit' stat. Analytically, Helgeson isn't great. Sure he brings all of that 'character' stuff, but that isn't really worth anything if the stats break down that he is a bad possession player at even strength.

This is the reason that I'm not a particularly big Hynes fan. He's done a great job getting them to play hard, but our defensemen have regressed to an extent, under him. I think he did a terrible job with both Severson and Gelinas. Gelly might not have regained his rookie form regardless, but he's got so much raw talent that it should have been incumbent upon Hynes to do whatever he could to bring it out.

Also, he has his guys - and his guys all seem to be scrappy, undersized 4th liners...Warsofsky, or whatever his name is, is pretty much the defenseman equivalent. And Hynes is going to ruin Severson, because of it, the way PDB almost did with Larsson.

Not retaining Stevens was an early warning sign - Hynes only wants his guys around him, and that extends to players, regardless of talent or ability.

This is the reason that I'm not a particularly big Hynes fan. He's done a great job getting them to play hard, but our defensemen have regressed to an extent, under him. I think he did a terrible job with both Severson and Gelinas. Gelly might not have regained his rookie form regardless, but he's got so much raw talent that it should have been incumbent upon Hynes to do whatever he could to bring it out.

Also, he has his guys - and his guys all seem to be scrappy, undersized 4th liners...Warsofsky, or whatever his name is, is pretty much the defenseman equivalent. And Hynes is going to ruin Severson, because of it, the way PDB almost did with Larsson.

Not retaining Stevens was an early warning sign - Hynes only wants his guys around him, and that extends to players, regardless of talent or ability.
- rsherman

Hynes has to work with what he is given, and he has done a good job. But he seems to want to win at all costs right now when they are out of it. At this point that should be secondary to evaluating the future, imo. Blandisi should be a top six and educate him on his defensive liabilities. Severson also should be getting quality minutes - and determine if he is in the future; don't ruin his value like Gelly. I would also like to see O'Neill back up in a top six role. Kennedy should be in the box with Tootoo and Rutuu. And I could go on.

There I vented.

This is the reason that I'm not a particularly big Hynes fan. He's done a great job getting them to play hard, but our defensemen have regressed to an extent, under him. I think he did a terrible job with both Severson and Gelinas. Gelly might not have regained his rookie form regardless, but he's got so much raw talent that it should have been incumbent upon Hynes to do whatever he could to bring it out.

Also, he has his guys - and his guys all seem to be scrappy, undersized 4th liners...Warsofsky, or whatever his name is, is pretty much the defenseman equivalent. And Hynes is going to ruin Severson, because of it, the way PDB almost did with Larsson.

Not retaining Stevens was an early warning sign - Hynes only wants his guys around him, and that extends to players, regardless of talent or ability.
- rsherman

to be fair, that's mainly what our team consists of, so he doesn't have much to work with

I like Helgeson out there as well, he brings some qualities that only really Lars brings

Hynes has to work with what he is given, and he has done a good job. But he seems to want to win at all costs right now when they are out of it. At this point that should be secondary to evaluating the future, imo. Blandisi should be a top six and educate him on his defensive liabilities. Severson also should be getting quality minutes - and determine if he is in the future; don't ruin his value like Gelly. I would also like to see O'Neill back up in a top six role. Kennedy should be in the box with Tootoo and Rutuu. And I could go on.

There I vented.
- redmonsters

The Severson scratching is a real had scratcher to me. Especially when your playing warsoftie over him. I Really hope when him and shero sit down this off season that hynes isn't preaching to ray to trade severson

Hynes has to work with what he is given, and he has done a good job. But he seems to want to win at all costs right now when they are out of it. At this point that should be secondary to evaluating the future, imo. Blandisi should be a top six and educate him on his defensive liabilities. Severson also should be getting quality minutes - and determine if he is in the future; don't ruin his value like Gelly. I would also like to see O'Neill back up in a top six role. Kennedy should be in the box with Tootoo and Rutuu. And I could go on.

There I vented.
- redmonsters

O'neill back again? He's a career AHL player

Tom Gulitti ‎@TGfireandice
There is a mini competition/rivarly in the Devils' locker room -- Team Lars vs. Team Palmieri.

Tom Gulitti ‎@TGfireandice
Team Lars consists of Larsson & Greene. Team Palmieri is apparently everyone else.

The thing is, there is no 'grit' stat. Analytically, Helgeson isn't great. Sure he brings all of that 'character' stuff, but that isn't really worth anything if the stats break down that he is a bad possession player at even strength.
- Pomegrant

Last time I checked they still kept track of hits and penalties so you can analytically tell the difference between a cream puff like Merrill and what Helgeson does on the ice. But it's not like Merrill is really bringing a whole lot of quality possession stats to the party either, is he? Or you could just actually watch a defenseman make a good hit and realize what he brings to the table that your other guys aren't doing.

The Devils are remarkably bad offensively. You might as well make them hard to play against defensively. And Helgeson can at least punish some guys and keep the game honest.

O'neill back again? He's a career AHL player
- rawwdogg88

I am not arguing you are wrong, but my point is I would rather bring some guys up and see what they can do with an opportunity (not 3rd or 4th lines) then watch Kennedy out there. Kennedy should be a career AHLer.

I am not arguing you are wrong, but my point is I would rather bring some guys up and see what they can do with an opportunity (not 3rd or 4th lines) then watch Kennedy out there. Kennedy should be a career AHLer.
- redmonsters

Yes, Kennedy belongs in the AHL as well. As much dead weight that ray cut from last year. it's amazing how much was still left and how much more he's added too. I know we had to fill out a roster, but I can't wait for this years dead weight to get cut loose!

Last time I checked they still kept track of hits and penalties so you can analytically tell the difference between a cream puff like Merrill and what Helgeson does on the ice. But it's not like Merrill is really bringing a whole lot of quality possession stats to the party either, is he? Or you could just actually watch a defenseman make a good hit and realize what he brings to the table that your other guys aren't doing.

The Devils are remarkably bad offensively. You might as well make them hard to play against defensively. And Helgeson can at least punish some guys and keep the game honest.
- Queenie_5_hole

Who said Merrill is good? Because analytically he's garbage.

I know math is scary, but if you learn about analytics it actually makes sense. It's really not that difficult.

Also hits and penalty minutes are something trackable but literally don't matter at all. Except you know all of the penalty minutes that wind up as power plays against.

Tom Gulitti ‎@TGfireandice
There is a mini competition/rivarly in the Devils' locker room -- Team Lars vs. Team Palmieri.

Tom Gulitti ‎@TGfireandice
Team Lars consists of Larsson & Greene. Team Palmieri is apparently everyone else.


- Senor_Elias

The thing is, there is no 'grit' stat. Analytically, Helgeson isn't great. Sure he brings all of that 'character' stuff, but that isn't really worth anything if the stats break down that he is a bad possession player at even strength.

The is the embodiment of mindset of the fancy stats trend. "Who cares if a player is good if there's not a stat that quantifies it?" I'm not saying Helgeson is good, but this logic makes zero sense to me. The game isn't played in a spreadsheet.

Analytics is a compliment to traditional scouting, but it'll never be a replacement. Has nothing to do with "math being scary", that's just a strawman argument.

The is the embodiment of mindset of the fancy stats trend. "Who cares if a player is good if there's not a stat that quantifies it?" I'm not saying Helgeson is good, but this logic makes zero sense to me. The game isn't played in a spreadsheet.

Analytics is a compliment to traditional scouting, but it'll never be a replacement. Has nothing to do with "math being scary", that's just a strawman argument.
- TheJerseyDevil1

It doesn't make sense to you because you believe that quality is something that is seen rather than recorded. If you look at baseball, the best teams are the ones that are built through analytics.

I'm a Richard to people who think that for some reason toughness and character are traits that are important. Because everybody who plays in the NHL all had to work their way there and have the drive to make it. It's bullpoop to think that some tough guy or gritty player is fine even though they are analytically terrible because of intangibles.

It doesn't make sense to you because you believe that quality is something that is seen rather than recorded. If you look at baseball, the best teams are the ones that are built through analytics.

I'm a Richard to people who think that for some reason toughness and character are traits that are important. Because everybody who plays in the NHL all had to work their way there and have the drive to make it. It's bullpoop to think that some tough guy or gritty player is fine even though they are analytically terrible because of intangibles.
- Pomegrant

Baseball is a wussy sport that's always been driven by stats. In hockey toughness and character are important and if you don't know hat you don't know the game. But frankly I don't care if you agree or not because obviously the coach does.

Baseball is a wussy sport that's always been driven by stats. In hockey toughness and character are important and if you don't know hat you don't know the game. But frankly I don't care if you agree or not because obviously the coach does.
- Queenie_5_hole

I mean, it's pretty easy to say "you're scared of math" with posts like this.

I mean, it's pretty easy to say "you're scared of math" with posts like this.
- Pomegrant

You already said that. Take your time and try to think of something new.

If you don't understand that sports aren't about math, I can't help you.

Severson is out of the lineup because he's made dumb mistakes with the puck. If you want to quantify that, enjoy. But until he gets his ass straightened out he deserves and will continue to ride the bench.